According to the Guttmacher Institute, chemical abortions accounted for 53% of all facility-based abortions in the United States in 2020. This two-drug regimen has ended countless lives, but what happens if the mother changes her mind after taking the first pill?
This week on Family Policy Matters, host Traci DeVette Griggs welcomes Lisa Searle to discuss the Abortion Pill Rescue Network. This organization, which is a part of Heartbeat International, helps women save their babies if they change their mind after taking the first abortion pill.
This episode is a part of a series highlighting the pro-life movement in North Carolina. Tune in each week to learn more!
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Family Policy Matters
Transcript: What’s Happened In the North Carolina General Assembly So Far This Year
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Thanks for joining us today for Family Policy Matters. We are recording this interview for both the radio show and podcast and NC Family’s weekly video updates. If you’re interested in seeing the video version of this interview, sign up as part of our email list at NCfamily.org and you will receive an email when they are online every week. Our guests today are here to give us an update on this session of the North Carolina General Assembly. John Rustin is president of NC Family and Jerry Royall is NC Family’s Counsel. Both spend a lot of time at the General Assembly keeping an eye on what’s happening and working to influence laws on behalf of the families in our state. It’s amazing that when you hear about all of these important bills in the media, they’re portrayed as radical. But as we know when we actually read the text of the bills, which of course are always available to us on the NC legislature’s website at ncleg.gov, we find they’re actually common sense and reasonable. So let’s talk about some of those bills. Well, let’s talk first about a victory. There was a pro life victory in the legislature. What happened?
JOHN RUSTIN
Yes, well, there was and hopefully as you’re aware, we have had a great pro life victory in North Carolina. Senate Bill 20—The Care for Women, Children, and Families Act was passed by the legislature, of course was vetoed by Governor Roy Cooper, and the legislature overrode the governor’s veto. This bill is a major pro life victory in North Carolina. It essentially reduces the gestational age for illegal abortions in North Carolina from 20 weeks to 12 weeks. Of course, at the onset of the session, we were advocating strongly for a heartbeat bill in North Carolina, which would have reduced the legal gestational age for abortion about six weeks, it was clear as this bill and discussions were going on in both the House and the Senate, that that just was unfortunately not going to happen, and so they settled on 12 weeks. But this bill contains a lot of other provisions that will protect life in North Carolina, and also that will provide resources to give women and families that are facing crisis and unplanned pregnancies every reason to choose life instead of choosing abortion. Jere, do you have any other perspective?
JERE ROYALL
As you said, yeah, that was a compromise. We obviously wanted, and many others wanted, conception to be the time when the unborn child is protected. But there were a lot of good provisions that were added along with the 12 week restriction.
JOHN RUSTIN
And Traci, this bill is is literally going to save thousands of lives every year, and is going to again, provide resources. There’s $160 million dollars appropriated in this bill for improvements and enhancements to foster care, to adoption, to maternal care and lots of other important services in North Carolina, again, to give women and families that are facing crisis and unplanned pregnancies every reason to choose life. And so we’re really excited about it.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Yeah, and I think it answers some of those critiques from the other side that all we care about is getting the baby born. So this is providing a lot of those services.
JOHN RUSTIN
Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s so critical, because there are going to be more and more women carrying a child to term and we need to provide those practical services to them and also support in lots of different ways. So yeah.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Well let’s talk about going forward, then, there are a lot of bills that are important to North Carolina families that are being considered, talk about what those are.
JOHN RUSTIN
Well, a major bill is the Parents’ Bill of Rights, which I know a lot of our viewers and listeners care about. This bill clarifies and codifies parents fundamental rights to the care, custody, and control – using kind of legal terms – of their children, particularly in the arenas of education and health care. So this bill, Senate Bill 49, passed the Senate in early February and is awaiting action in the House. And we’re very, very hopeful that the house is going to take this bill up and pass it because parents do have a fundamental right to the care and upbringing of their children. But because that’s being challenged in lots of areas, especially in education and in health care, this bill does need to pass.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Okay, how about Opportunity Scholarships?
JERE ROYALL
Well, this is an area where more and more people are realizing we need to offer choices in education, and there’s great support across the state for this. So both chambers, the House and the Senate have bills proposing that. The House actually passed their version, the Senate version was not voted on, would expand things even more. Their’s actually would include all income levels. Now it would be on a sliding scale, the amount of these grants, but because the bill has not been taken up, many people are talking about the fact that it will be put in the state budget, which is what has happened in recent years. But either way, there is going to be a significant expansion of the scholarship grants, not an unlimited amount, but they are going to continue to increase the availability of these scholarships.
JOHN RUSTIN
Yeah, so expanding eligibility, so more children, more families will be able to choose the educational environment that’s best for their children, and also forward funding as the legislature is done so that there are appropriations set aside for Opportunity Scholarships for years in advance. So we’re really excited about this initiative, and the legislature is really continuing making North Carolina one of the leading states in the nation in school choice.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
So this is what critics have hammered on is the all income levels, that you’re going to be providing these scholarships, which have in the past may have been for people who are low income or who’ve had special needs children. So now we’re giving scholarships and taking these rich kids and paying for them to go to private schools. What’s the truth in that?
JERE ROYALL
Well, I mean it is but it’s on a sliding scale. But the reality is people are saying taxpayers are putting money into the state fund, and so it only makes sense that if people are choosing for their children to take another path that some of those resources should follow the child. I understand your point people are making but the reality is doesn’t it make sense to let resources but not as much of the state resources follow the child as they go to various schools?
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Okay. The next one, I think is Fairness in Women’s Sports Act.
JOHN RUSTIN
Yes, and this bill is really designed to protect the health and safety of female athletes in middle school, high school, and college by designating sports teams as either male, female or CO Ed based on biological sex. And so there were similar bills introduced in both the State Senate and the State House, those bills passed their chamber of origin. So the Senate bill passed the Senate, the House bill passed the House, but neither chamber has taken up the other chambers bill yet. So since there is clearly support in both chambers for this legislation, we fully anticipate that this bill will be taken up in either the House or the Senate, and that bill will be passed.
JERE ROYALL
Quick note on that, John, that doesn’t normally happen. Usually, one chamber passes a bill sends it over to the other. In this case, as you say they did pass their own version. The main difference is the House version includes college sports, so it remains to be seen how they’re going to work out that difference.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Okay, so this is primarily about transgender individuals trying to play on a sport that doesn’t match their birth gender. So we’ve got another bill that’s similar prohibiting gender surgeries on minors. What’s happening with that?
JOHN RUSTIN
Right, well, this is House Bill 808, which passed the House in early May, has not been considered by the Senate yet. The original version of this bill, and there’s a companion Senate bill, would prohibit the administration of puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and the performance of gender reassignment surgeries on minors in North Carolina. So the House took up their bill, they took out the puberty blockers or the chemical portions and kept it as just prohibiting cross sex surgeries on minors and sent that bill over to the Senate. We’re hopeful that the Senate will take up their version of the bill or reinstate the chemical treatment prohibition as part of this bill. Because these drugs, these chemicals, and these surgical procedures are irreversible and sterilize the individuals who receive these services. And it’s just not a good thing for especially our youth to be subjected to. And so individuals who are dealing with gender dysphoria certainly need support, they need compassion, they need care, but they don’t need irreversible surgeries and chemicals in their bodies.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Okay, so these two bills are not proof that Republicans hate transgender individuals, is that what you’re saying?
JOHN RUSTIN
Yes, that is correct.
JERE ROYALL
It is, it’s showing true care for people. As John said, they’re permanent changes. There’s no proof. I mean, more and more. We’ve seen it over in Europe, other parts of the world that they’ve been on this path and have seen, they’re coming with negative outcomes. This is bringing harm to people’s lives. So it is, it’s really showing compassion. One other quick note too, John, it remains to be seen how their work out the difference, the House version did still have a provision in there, even though it didn’t keep the chemical part, where no state funding would go towards any kinds of treatments.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Yeah, it is interesting that the United States is doing much more radical things with individuals who believe themselves to be transgender than even European countries. Some of these countries we expect to be far out there.
JOHN RUSTIN
And Traci, in a related bill, there’s also legislation that would protect the rights of conscience of healthcare providers in North Carolina. It’s a very broad bill, but part of the intention of the bill is to address and protect physicians and others in the healthcare industry from being forced to engage and participate in these kinds of administration of drugs and surgeries on minors. So that is House Bill 819, the Medical Ethics Defense Act. We do have conscience protections in North Carolina protecting doctors, physicians, health care providers from participating in abortions. And this would extend that in a much broader sense. So we are hopeful that this bill will be taken up because that’s really important not only to prohibit minors from participating, but if adults are seeking these kinds of treatments that, if a healthcare provider objects to it on religious, ethical or moral grounds, they should not be forced to participate in it. So another important bill.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Okay. So the final one that our organization is watching is called The REACH Act, and as someone who loves history and thinks that we all need to learn more about our Founding Fathers and some of the founding documents, I love this one. But explain what that is.
JOHN RUSTIN
Well, The REACH Act would require three credit hours of instruction on American government and our founding documents as a prerequisite for graduation from North Carolina universities and community colleges. So the title of the bill is Reclaiming College Education on America’s Constitutional Heritage, the acronym for that is REACH, so that’s where The REACH Act comes from. And there were bills introduced in both chambers to do this. There have been discussions, but no final action taken yet on this legislation by the General Assembly.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Right, and why is this important?
JERE ROYALL
Well, as we’re seeing now, they’ve done surveys and asked people basic questions about government. And sadly, the responses are almost shocking. And this is where people are going, “Okay, we see this is a problem.” As citizens of this country, we need to understand our system of government, we all need to participate. And that’s what course we’re about. And we appreciate the fact that so many of you work together with us within our government. But if people don’t understand how the government system works, they’re not as likely to be involved and interested. And so this is an important part of helping people see what does it mean to be a citizen of this country, of this state?
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
Right. And I think this is why it’s important for all of us to be an educated electorate. This is why getting involved with NC Family, signing up for those emails and actually reading them when they go into your email box is important because you’re continuing to educate yourself and how you can be active.
JOHN RUSTIN
We’ve got a couple more issues to talk about. I know we’re running short on time. Of course, gambling has been a huge focus of the legislature. Unfortunately in recent weeks, as we are having our discussion today, the sports gambling and horse racing bill has passed the General Assembly and has been sent to the governor. He is expected to sign the bill in the coming days. And it’s just very unfortunate because we know the tremendously negative impact that the legalization of sports gambling in North Carolina is going to have, especially on our young adults and youth. The legislature is also considering bills and discussing bills that would place casinos in North Carolina and also legalize Video Lottery terminals or basically video poker machines under the auspices of the state lottery, we are fighting these bills like the dickens and I’m just heartbroken to see the sports gambling bill and the horse racing bill pass the legislature. If this is an issue that is of concern to you, please keep your eyes and ears open for alerts from the Family Policy Council as we move further into the session, because these bills are likely to come up quite quickly.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
And then the last one is medical marijuana, which I think is just ridiculous that we’re actually still talking about this. We know all the evidence that shows that it’s not healthy to have this legalized marijuana. Talk about what’s happening in North Carolina.
JERE ROYALL
Well, it passed earlier this year in the Senate as the House has not brought it up yet. We and you and many others continue to inform our members of the legislature of the house, just as you’re saying Traci, about the realities. All major medical groups are saying, “No, let us be the ones who approve medications. This we’re finding harm, not help.” And again, thank you for your involvement, because the more they’re hearing, the more they’re being encouraged with the facts and the truth. We’re understanding that opposition is continuing to grow. So this coming week, we’ve heard they may be voting in the House within the caucus of Republicans where if it’s defeated there, then that will be the end of the bill, which is what needs to happen. So we all are going to keep working together to inform, encourage them which goes back to your whole point about being involved with government, looking out for our neighbor, caring for one another. This is one more way we can do that.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS
And y’all it’s so valuable that we have these people up there, you know, advocating on our behalf. So thank you very much for all the good work that you guys do.
JOHN RUSTIN
Thank you, Traci. I appreciate that.
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Family Policy Matters
Transcript: Reversing Death: The Abortion Pill Rescue Network
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Thanks for joining us this week for Family Policy Matters. This summer marks one year since the US Supreme Court reversed its nearly 50 year old Roe v Wade decision that had legalized abortion on demand nationwide. So this month, we’re bringing you a series of interviews with North Carolinians who represent the many facets of the pro-life movement. Today we’re joined by Lisa Searle, who oversees the Abortion Pill Rescue Network, a program within Heartbeat International that serves women who regret beginning the process of chemical or medical abortions. We’re grateful to have her with us today to discuss this very important facet of the pro life movement. Lisa Searle, welcome to Family Policy Matters.
LISA SEARLE: Thank you, Traci. I’m glad to be here.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Alright, so why don’t you start off, before we get into the mechanics of the abortion pill reversal, tell us why you’re involved in the pro life movement. Why is it so important to you that you’re devoting much of your life to it?
LISA SEARLE: Because women and their families are important to me. As a young adult, I spent time working in the abortion industry, and during that time, I thought I was helping women. But I’ve learned that that’s not always the help they need. So here I am working hard to make a difference in their lives in a more positive way.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: What about Heartbeat International? How did you end up there? And specifically, how did you end up working with the Abortion Pill Rescue Network,
LISA SEARLE: I started in a pregnancy health organization, started working as their nurse manager, and was with them for about four years, realized my love for pregnancy health ministry and started working as a volunteer with Abortion Pill Rescue taking hotline calls as a nurse. And later on, doing that after about two years, they asked me to come on board as a nurse manager and oversee the abortion pill reversal hotline. So that’s how I got involved, started in pregnancy center ministry, but my background in women’s health and labor, delivery, postpartum, that kind of thing, kind of kind of paved the path for me.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: For those who might not know what Heartbeat International is give us just a quick little description.
LISA SEARLE: So Heartbeat International is an organization. We have a network of pregnancy help organizations, we have a network of affiliates, that come alongside us. And our mission is to reach and rescue as many lives as possible through an effective global network of life affirming pregnancy help. We want communities to be renewed for life. So through these organizations, we do a lot of education for pregnancy help organizations so they can take it back to their communities and reach each of their communities.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: So let’s talk a little bit about the abortion pill reversal process. Because I remember hearing about it many years ago, and the doctor who was advocating for this was really kind of a pariah. I mean, people made fun of him because they didn’t believe that it was actually going to work and that was safe. But it’s become a lot more mainstream, hasn’t it?
LISA SEARLE: Yes. So as we all know, chemical abortion is on the rise. So for women who have taken mifepristone, mifepristone is that first medication used in a chemical abortion, mifepristone blocks progesterone action. So progesterone is the pregnancy maintaining hormone, so without progesterone, you can’t have a pregnancy. So mifepristone blocks progesterone action by binding progesterone receptors in the uterus and placenta. So progesterone is the natural hormone in a woman’s body. So what we do is, and our providers do, they prescribe progesterone. This woman takes progesterone with the hopes of outnumbering and out competing the mifepristone in order to reverse the effects of the drug. So when a woman has taken this medication, she can call our hotline. And our calls are answered by Option Line, a 24/7 line that’s available for women who are seeking information on abortion or care. They can call us at 1-877-558-0333. And they call us and we provide a nurse, we have nurses who answer the hotline calls and do an intake, and we connect them with providers in their community who can prescribe progesterone for them.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Is this safe for mom? And if the baby survives, is it safe for the baby? What kind of outcomes are you seeing?
LISA SEARLE: So with the first medication used in chemical abortion, the mifepristone, there are no known birth defects associated with this medication. Progesterone, which is what we use for reversal, progesterone, we have been using progesterone safely for over 50 years. It is the medication that is used for women who are experiencing a threatened miscarriage or for women who have had a history of miscarriage. Progesterone is given just to support the pregnancy. So what we are using is safe, safe for women and safe for the baby. And like I said, the mifepristone, that first medication, is not associated with birth defects.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: As a nurse, do you have concerns over the growth in medical abortions because they’re the majority of abortions these days, right?
LISA SEARLE: Yes. So what we’re seeing in 2020, there was, chemical abortion was 53% of all abortions. It is projected that by the end of 2023 80% of abortions will be chemical abortion. So we are concerned. And what is most concerning is that this abortion medication is available to anyone. It is online, it is mail order, anyone can get this medication. So what that means for women is that women are not getting assessments. No one is laying their eyes on these women before they are taking a medication to cause abortion. There’s no ultrasound, so we have no idea how far along they are. There’s no follow up. So that is very concerning for the women that are going this route.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: But you are seeing some reasons for hope in recent years, right, I mean, related to the science surrounding the abortion pill reversal, and the attitudes of women that you’re seeing?
LISA SEARLE: You know, science has come a long way. And I think we are finally seeing that science is telling us that a baby is a baby. Just to say ultrasound is a great tool to use when you’re introducing the woman to her child. Women are seeing their babies and some of them did not know it was a baby, they’ve always been educated that it was just a clump of cells, or not educated. But now we have pregnancy resource centers. We have resources in place. Women really don’t want abortion. Women want to solve a problem. So if we can come together we can use our resources, come together and just be there for these women, love them and help them, love them through the problem per se. We are seeing better outcomes.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Do you feel like the work of Heartbeat International, and specifically the Abortion Pill Reversal Network, is important for changing hearts and minds toward abortion because it’s really the task before us now, right?
LISA SEARLE: It is all about education. It is all about going out there and reaching, reaching people, reaching organizations, and rescuing people, rescuing lives. And that’s what at Heartbeat International, that’s what we do. We go out, we educate, we provide resources that carries through to each community. That’s what we’re here for.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: What about advice for some of our listeners who might want to get involved in this Abortion Pill Rescue Network, what would you say to them as far as how they can get involved
LISA SEARLE: I would say again, it is all about education and what they can do. Get into your community and spread the word. Go to your churches, go to your lawmakers, go to those in leadership and spread the word about the resources available. And your local pregnancy help organizations, go there, donate, be the hands and feet that they need to carry out their services that service women. Get involved in their banquets, get involved in their walks, support them. Ask them, how can I help?
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: How about for fellow nurses? Are you seeing that there’s a need for others who might want to get involved either on a full time basis or just volunteering part time?
LISA SEARLE: Yes, absolutely. The nurses, of course, you are needed in your local centers. If you are interested in working with us at Heartbeat International, you can reach out to us at medical@heartbeatinternational.org. We will be glad to answer any questions that you have and direct you in the right way. You can also reach out to that email address if you’re interested in providing abortion pill rescue services. We’ll be happy to help you get the right material.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Give us some examples, because you’ve said that people can get involved at these centers, that nurses can get involved. What are some of the specific ways, what would, if they were to walk in and say I want to volunteer what are some opportunities that they might be presented with to do in these centers?
LISA SEARLE: Their local pregnancy center has a nurse, they need a nurse to do a pregnancy test. Clients come in for pregnancy testing and for verification of pregnancy. So that would be one thing the nurse could do. Nurse can sit with a client one-on-one and just kind of navigate through what is going on. What is the problem and just help her – the client, when I say her client – navigate the path that she’s going down. The nurse also can provide ultrasounds, with a little additional training, can provide ultrasounds and maybe there are some nurses out there that already have that or since sonographers that might be interested. There is a big need for that for sure.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: So one more time. Give us your contact information before we go, Lisa Searle with Heartbeat International.
LISA SEARLE: Our hotline number, this would be for someone that you know that is seeking reversal, is 1-877-558-0333 You can also go to the abortion pill reversal website, which is abortionpillreversal.com to learn more about abortion pill reversal. And if you have any questions you can reach out to us at medical@heartbeatinternational.org and we’ll be happy to answer your questions.
TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: All right, Lisa Searle thank you so much for being with us today on Family Policy Matters.
LISA SEARLE: Thank you so much.
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