Parental Rights and Public Schools in North Carolina (School Choice in NC Part 5)

September 16, 2023
NC Family Staff

Public schools have been receiving a lot of national attention over the last few years, regarding things like controversial books in the libraries, the curriculum being taught, gender issues, and the extent of parents’ rights. This summer, the North Carolina Legislature passed the Parents’ Bill of Rights, which helps to clarify some of these matters.

This week on Family Policy Matters, host Traci DeVette Griggs welcomes Michael Ramey, President of the Parental Rights Foundation, to discuss North Carolina’s Parents’ Bill of Rights and how it will benefit families in the public school system.

This episode is a part of a series highlighting the school choice movement across North Carolina. Tune in each week to learn more!

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<a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3K0nw2vq2CqnkH6dzUDQM6?si=8764bcaf58104ce9" target="_blank" rel="noopener external noreferrer" data-wpel-link="external">Spotify</a> • <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nc-familys-family-policy-matters/id1281072482" target="_blank" rel="noopener external noreferrer" data-wpel-link="external">Apple Podcasts</a> • <a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-nc-familys-family-policy-m-30945720/" target="_blank" rel="noopener external noreferrer" data-wpel-link="external">iHeart Radio</a> • <a href="https://www.audacy.com/podcast/nc-familys-family-policy-matters-8ccbc" target="_blank" rel="noopener external noreferrer" data-wpel-link="external">Audacy</a> • <a href="https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/af37d15c-824e-4670-b8af-45e1a2f6b9a6/nc-family's-family-policy-matters" target="_blank" rel="noopener external noreferrer" data-wpel-link="external">Amazon Music</a> <hr /> <h3 style="text-align: center;">Family Policy Matters Transcript: What’s Happened In the North Carolina General Assembly So Far This Year</h3> TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Thanks for joining us today for Family Policy Matters. We are recording this interview for both the radio show and podcast and NC Family’s weekly video updates. If you’re interested in seeing the video version of this interview, sign up as part of our email list at NCfamily.org and you will receive an email when they are online every week. Our guests today are here to give us an update on this session of the North Carolina General Assembly. John Rustin is president of NC Family and Jerry Royall is NC Family’s Counsel. Both spend a lot of time at the General Assembly keeping an eye on what’s happening and working to influence laws on behalf of the families in our state. It’s amazing that when you hear about all of these important bills in the media, they’re portrayed as radical. But as we know when we actually read the text of the bills, which of course are always available to us on the NC legislature’s website at ncleg.gov, we find they’re actually common sense and reasonable. So let’s talk about some of those bills. Well, let’s talk first about a victory. There was a pro life victory in the legislature. What happened? JOHN RUSTIN Yes, well, there was and hopefully as you’re aware, we have had a great pro life victory in North Carolina. Senate Bill 20—The Care for Women, Children, and Families Act was passed by the legislature, of course was vetoed by Governor Roy Cooper, and the legislature overrode the governor’s veto. This bill is a major pro life victory in North Carolina. It essentially reduces the gestational age for illegal abortions in North Carolina from 20 weeks to 12 weeks. Of course, at the onset of the session, we were advocating strongly for a heartbeat bill in North Carolina, which would have reduced the legal gestational age for abortion about six weeks, it was clear as this bill and discussions were going on in both the House and the Senate, that that just was unfortunately not going to happen, and so they settled on 12 weeks. But this bill contains a lot of other provisions that will protect life in North Carolina, and also that will provide resources to give women and families that are facing crisis and unplanned pregnancies every reason to choose life instead of choosing abortion. Jere, do you have any other perspective? JERE ROYALL As you said, yeah, that was a compromise. We obviously wanted, and many others wanted, conception to be the time when the unborn child is protected. But there were a lot of good provisions that were added along with the 12 week restriction. JOHN RUSTIN And Traci, this bill is is literally going to save thousands of lives every year, and is going to again, provide resources. There’s $160 million dollars appropriated in this bill for improvements and enhancements to foster care, to adoption, to maternal care and lots of other important services in North Carolina, again, to give women and families that are facing crisis and unplanned pregnancies every reason to choose life. And so we’re really excited about it. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Yeah, and I think it answers some of those critiques from the other side that all we care about is getting the baby born. So this is providing a lot of those services. JOHN RUSTIN Absolutely, absolutely. And that’s so critical, because there are going to be more and more women carrying a child to term and we need to provide those practical services to them and also support in lots of different ways. So yeah. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Well let’s talk about going forward, then, there are a lot of bills that are important to North Carolina families that are being considered, talk about what those are. JOHN RUSTIN Well, a major bill is the Parents’ Bill of Rights, which I know a lot of our viewers and listeners care about. This bill clarifies and codifies parents fundamental rights to the care, custody, and control – using kind of legal terms – of their children, particularly in the arenas of education and health care. So this bill, Senate Bill 49, passed the Senate in early February and is awaiting action in the House. And we’re very, very hopeful that the house is going to take this bill up and pass it because parents do have a fundamental right to the care and upbringing of their children. But because that’s being challenged in lots of areas, especially in education and in health care, this bill does need to pass. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Okay, how about Opportunity Scholarships? JERE ROYALL Well, this is an area where more and more people are realizing we need to offer choices in education, and there’s great support across the state for this. So both chambers, the House and the Senate have bills proposing that. The House actually passed their version, the Senate version was not voted on, would expand things even more. Their’s actually would include all income levels. Now it would be on a sliding scale, the amount of these grants, but because the bill has not been taken up, many people are talking about the fact that it will be put in the state budget, which is what has happened in recent years. But either way, there is going to be a significant expansion of the scholarship grants, not an unlimited amount, but they are going to continue to increase the availability of these scholarships. JOHN RUSTIN Yeah, so expanding eligibility, so more children, more families will be able to choose the educational environment that’s best for their children, and also forward funding as the legislature is done so that there are appropriations set aside for Opportunity Scholarships for years in advance. So we’re really excited about this initiative, and the legislature is really continuing making North Carolina one of the leading states in the nation in school choice. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS So this is what critics have hammered on is the all income levels, that you’re going to be providing these scholarships, which have in the past may have been for people who are low income or who’ve had special needs children. So now we’re giving scholarships and taking these rich kids and paying for them to go to private schools. What’s the truth in that? JERE ROYALL Well, I mean it is but it’s on a sliding scale. But the reality is people are saying taxpayers are putting money into the state fund, and so it only makes sense that if people are choosing for their children to take another path that some of those resources should follow the child. I understand your point people are making but the reality is doesn’t it make sense to let resources but not as much of the state resources follow the child as they go to various schools? TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Okay. The next one, I think is Fairness in Women’s Sports Act. JOHN RUSTIN Yes, and this bill is really designed to protect the health and safety of female athletes in middle school, high school, and college by designating sports teams as either male, female or CO Ed based on biological sex. And so there were similar bills introduced in both the State Senate and the State House, those bills passed their chamber of origin. So the Senate bill passed the Senate, the House bill passed the House, but neither chamber has taken up the other chambers bill yet. So since there is clearly support in both chambers for this legislation, we fully anticipate that this bill will be taken up in either the House or the Senate, and that bill will be passed. JERE ROYALL Quick note on that, John, that doesn’t normally happen. Usually, one chamber passes a bill sends it over to the other. In this case, as you say they did pass their own version. The main difference is the House version includes college sports, so it remains to be seen how they’re going to work out that difference. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Okay, so this is primarily about transgender individuals trying to play on a sport that doesn’t match their birth gender. So we’ve got another bill that’s similar prohibiting gender surgeries on minors. What’s happening with that? JOHN RUSTIN Right, well, this is House Bill 808, which passed the House in early May, has not been considered by the Senate yet. The original version of this bill, and there’s a companion Senate bill, would prohibit the administration of puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, and the performance of gender reassignment surgeries on minors in North Carolina. So the House took up their bill, they took out the puberty blockers or the chemical portions and kept it as just prohibiting cross sex surgeries on minors and sent that bill over to the Senate. We’re hopeful that the Senate will take up their version of the bill or reinstate the chemical treatment prohibition as part of this bill. Because these drugs, these chemicals, and these surgical procedures are irreversible and sterilize the individuals who receive these services. And it’s just not a good thing for especially our youth to be subjected to. And so individuals who are dealing with gender dysphoria certainly need support, they need compassion, they need care, but they don’t need irreversible surgeries and chemicals in their bodies. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Okay, so these two bills are not proof that Republicans hate transgender individuals, is that what you’re saying? JOHN RUSTIN Yes, that is correct. JERE ROYALL It is, it’s showing true care for people. As John said, they’re permanent changes. There’s no proof. I mean, more and more. We’ve seen it over in Europe, other parts of the world that they’ve been on this path and have seen, they’re coming with negative outcomes. This is bringing harm to people’s lives. So it is, it’s really showing compassion. One other quick note too, John, it remains to be seen how their work out the difference, the House version did still have a provision in there, even though it didn’t keep the chemical part, where no state funding would go towards any kinds of treatments. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Yeah, it is interesting that the United States is doing much more radical things with individuals who believe themselves to be transgender than even European countries. Some of these countries we expect to be far out there. JOHN RUSTIN And Traci, in a related bill, there’s also legislation that would protect the rights of conscience of healthcare providers in North Carolina. It’s a very broad bill, but part of the intention of the bill is to address and protect physicians and others in the healthcare industry from being forced to engage and participate in these kinds of administration of drugs and surgeries on minors. So that is House Bill 819, the Medical Ethics Defense Act. We do have conscience protections in North Carolina protecting doctors, physicians, health care providers from participating in abortions. And this would extend that in a much broader sense. So we are hopeful that this bill will be taken up because that’s really important not only to prohibit minors from participating, but if adults are seeking these kinds of treatments that, if a healthcare provider objects to it on religious, ethical or moral grounds, they should not be forced to participate in it. So another important bill. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Okay. So the final one that our organization is watching is called The REACH Act, and as someone who loves history and thinks that we all need to learn more about our Founding Fathers and some of the founding documents, I love this one. But explain what that is. JOHN RUSTIN Well, The REACH Act would require three credit hours of instruction on American government and our founding documents as a prerequisite for graduation from North Carolina universities and community colleges. So the title of the bill is Reclaiming College Education on America’s Constitutional Heritage, the acronym for that is REACH, so that’s where The REACH Act comes from. And there were bills introduced in both chambers to do this. There have been discussions, but no final action taken yet on this legislation by the General Assembly. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Right, and why is this important? JERE ROYALL Well, as we’re seeing now, they’ve done surveys and asked people basic questions about government. And sadly, the responses are almost shocking. And this is where people are going, “Okay, we see this is a problem.” As citizens of this country, we need to understand our system of government, we all need to participate. And that’s what course we’re about. And we appreciate the fact that so many of you work together with us within our government. But if people don’t understand how the government system works, they’re not as likely to be involved and interested. And so this is an important part of helping people see what does it mean to be a citizen of this country, of this state? TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS Right. And I think this is why it’s important for all of us to be an educated electorate. This is why getting involved with NC Family, signing up for those emails and actually reading them when they go into your email box is important because you’re continuing to educate yourself and how you can be active. JOHN RUSTIN We’ve got a couple more issues to talk about. I know we’re running short on time. Of course, gambling has been a huge focus of the legislature. Unfortunately in recent weeks, as we are having our discussion today, the sports gambling and horse racing bill has passed the General Assembly and has been sent to the governor. He is expected to sign the bill in the coming days. And it’s just very unfortunate because we know the tremendously negative impact that the legalization of sports gambling in North Carolina is going to have, especially on our young adults and youth. The legislature is also considering bills and discussing bills that would place casinos in North Carolina and also legalize Video Lottery terminals or basically video poker machines under the auspices of the state lottery, we are fighting these bills like the dickens and I’m just heartbroken to see the sports gambling bill and the horse racing bill pass the legislature. If this is an issue that is of concern to you, please keep your eyes and ears open for alerts from the Family Policy Council as we move further into the session, because these bills are likely to come up quite quickly. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS And then the last one is medical marijuana, which I think is just ridiculous that we’re actually still talking about this. We know all the evidence that shows that it’s not healthy to have this legalized marijuana. Talk about what’s happening in North Carolina. JERE ROYALL Well, it passed earlier this year in the Senate as the House has not brought it up yet. We and you and many others continue to inform our members of the legislature of the house, just as you’re saying Traci, about the realities. All major medical groups are saying, “No, let us be the ones who approve medications. This we’re finding harm, not help.” And again, thank you for your involvement, because the more they’re hearing, the more they’re being encouraged with the facts and the truth. We’re understanding that opposition is continuing to grow. So this coming week, we’ve heard they may be voting in the House within the caucus of Republicans where if it’s defeated there, then that will be the end of the bill, which is what needs to happen. So we all are going to keep working together to inform, encourage them which goes back to your whole point about being involved with government, looking out for our neighbor, caring for one another. This is one more way we can do that. TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS And y’all it’s so valuable that we have these people up there, you know, advocating on our behalf. So thank you very much for all the good work that you guys do. JOHN RUSTIN Thank you, Traci. I appreciate that. <h3 style="text-align: center;">– END –</h3>

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Family Policy Matters
Transcript: Parental Rights and Public Schools in North Carolina (School Choice in NC Part 5)

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Thanks for joining us this week for Family Policy Matters. As we wrap up our education series, we’re going to take a look today at North Carolina’s newly passed Parents’ Bill of Rights, which includes several provisions related to parents’ roles in their children’s education. We’re joined by Michael Ramey, president of Parental Rights Foundation, to discuss the growing movement to strengthen protections for parental rights across the country and, of course, here in North Carolina. Michael Ramey, welcome to Family Policy Matters.

MICHAEL RAMEY: Thank you, it’s good to be here.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: What, in your opinion, is the current status of parental rights protections in the US today,

MICHAEL RAMEY: Literally and metaphorically, it’s all over the map. Some states are doing more to protect parental rights, and in other states, the usual suspects, California, New Jersey, and some others, are really passing new legislation to undermine parental rights.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Do you see what you would call the greatest threats to parental rights these days, as you’re seeing all of these different states?

MICHAEL RAMEY: Well, there are so many, because there are literally millions of parents all over the country, all dealing with the government in various ways. Of course, you know, in public education, one of the biggest threats is keeping secrets from parents. When a child is thinking of transgender or sexual orientation, thoughts, keeping secrets from parents about minor children is just not a good idea. And then for other folks, you know, especially folks in poverty and minorities, they might be dealing with child welfare issues that don’t respect their parental rights. So it really kind of depends on where that point of contact is between the parents and the government.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: The common thread is that we are seeing, I would imagine, a lot of these parental rights being eroded or the attempt to erode them.

MICHAEL RAMEY: We are. There’s sort of this other mindset that says that we can’t trust parents. And you know, the Supreme Court has held and recognized that foundational to our whole concept of law is that parents can be trusted as a general rule. That natural bonds of affection lead parents to act in the best interest of their child. And what we’re seeing today is a new wave of public servants of government officials, and so forth, who apparently just don’t believe that. Don’t believe that parents can be trusted.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: The parental rights bill was passed over the objections and veto of our governor, what were his objections? Do you know? And what are the common objections of those who opposed the bill here in North Carolina?

MICHAEL RAMEY: Bills like the one in North Carolina tend to get the same kind of protest from those people who do have a different worldview. And according to a press release that Roy Cooper made, when he vetoed the bill on July 5, he seems to fall right in line with that. He cited concerns over the provisions that require public schools to notify parents if their children are thinking transgender and want to socially transition at school, he didn’t want the schools to have to tell parents that, and he’s not comfortable with the part of the bill that prevents, “instruction on gender identity, sexual activity, or sexuality from being included in the curriculum provided in grades kindergarten through fourth grade,” so unlike a lot of parents in North Carolina, and across the country, he apparently is not concerned with letting kids be kids and not have to deal with these more grown-up activities for the first few years that they’re in school.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: So you mentioned this group of policymakers and just others who feel like we can’t trust parents. What kind of worldview is that? Where does that stem from, do you think that distrust of parents?

MICHAEL RAMEY: Part of it may be that, you know, now, as we’re interconnected more and more through the internet and through, just, you know, we can see things going on everywhere. And so the horror stories that pop up, even though they’re just as rare as they’ve ever been, and in many cases are rarer, they make the news cycles, and they grab the attention. And so some folks just think that because some parents abused their children that therefore we can’t trust any parents, which ironically, you know, there are considerable rates of abuse and mistreatment of children, even in public schools. But nobody’s saying, well, we can’t trust public schools with that. Certainly not the folks with that worldview. They’re saying, well, we need the teachers to keep an eye on the parents, and really the opposite is more true. We need parents keeping an eye on our public schools.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Right. We talked a lot about how America is very individualistic. Could it be a kind of a hyper-individualistic attitude?

MICHAEL RAMEY: You think so but there are, for instance, vaccination laws that I think really display the lie of that. some states have tried to pass laws saying that a child as young as 12, or even younger, can get a vaccine over their parents’ objection. But none of them says that the child can be free from the vaccine if the parent wants to give it to them. So, in other words, they’re not really wanting the child to have the right to decide, they’re wanting the child to have the right to decide what the state wants if the parents disagree.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Alright, that’s a pretty important distinction. All right. Well, let’s talk about this bill in North Carolina, the parental rights bill, give us some details on that.

MICHAEL RAMEY: The bill protects certain rights of the parents specifically, it includes the right to direct the education and care of his or her child, to direct the upbringing and moral or religious training of his or her child, to enroll the child in public or non-public school or any other school choice options, to make healthcare decisions, and to access all their education records, and so on. And I’m actually kind of reading through section 114 A-10 of the bill there. These are some rights that the Supreme Court of the United States is upheld to be fundamental parental rights. And so it’s refreshing and encouraging to see them spelled out in North Carolina law right there in black and white.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Okay, what kind of influence, do you think, are you seeing very specific changes coming?

MICHAEL RAMEY: The parts that are, folks, I think are anticipating changes, there is a part that says that parents have the right to make health care decisions and to access and review all medical records of the child and so on. And there’s a part that does direct schools that if the child considers themselves to be transgender and wants to socially transition at school that the schools need to let the parents know about that, which is a big deal. It’s a hot-button issue right now. But the fact is that parents need to be a part of those decisions that can really affect a child for the rest of their life, and allowing schools to keep those things secret from parents and begin what is essentially a board-recognized treatment of the child is something that we want to see stop. So that’s one thing that hopefully will change. Schools will stop keeping those secrets from parents about their minor children.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: How does North Carolina’s new Parents’ Bill of Rights compare to the ones you’ve seen in other states?

MICHAEL RAMEY: It’s funny, we call them Parents’ Bill of Rights, but there really are several different kinds. And there are some like Oklahoma passed one almost a decade ago that really spells out parents’ rights in a number of areas, not just focused on public schools like North Carolina’s is, and that’s not a problem. North Carolina’s is answering the immediate need to stop those dangerous secrets. So some states have Parents’ Bill of Rights is more inclusive than in others states, it’s less so. In some states, it’s just a very general thing. Like this year, three states, North Dakota and Iowa and Alabama passed not a Parents’ Bill of Rights, per se, but a law that states just plainly in the text, that parental rights are fundamental that they can only be overcome or limited for a compelling governmental interest that’s met by the least restrictive means. So that really matches the standard that the Supreme Court has set for parental rights in our country. And North Carolina didn’t go quite as far as that. They didn’t go quite as far as saying they’re fundamental or demanding that sort of compelling state interest. But in the areas that this bill covers, it’s really solid. And it’s great that it spells out in detail that the parents have these specific rights.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: So, do you have some things that you would appreciate being in this law? You mentioned the other states that had more inclusive laws. Are there some things that you might like to see added later on?

MICHAEL RAMEY: Yeah, for a full Parents’ Bill of Rights, I think considering, for instance, child welfare cases as well and some of the reforms that are needed there would be good to flesh out a full Parents’ Bill of Rights. Now, again, North Carolina’s wasn’t intended to cover everything is really, really focused on tackling the problems in the public schools, and I appreciate what it did. But in terms of when you look at child welfare, then you have to consider, you know, the termination of parental rights should be very much a last resort. And it’s not, parents should have rights from the outset of an investigation. They should know what their rights are. And the state should be working to keep families together as much as possible. So you know, avoiding foster care and that kind of thing, whenever possible, only remove children from their parents when the parents are demonstrably unfit to take care of their children. And we don’t really see that happening especially laying in some of the poorer neighborhoods, so not just in North Carolina, but all over the country. So those are some things I would love to see tackle. And then too, like I already mentioned, you know, just that parental rights are fundamental rights and require the highest level of judicial scrutiny when they are challenged by a law or by the state, that it must be to fulfill a compelling governmental interest that can’t be met by any less restrictive means.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Well, let’s talk just a bit more in-depth about aspects of the North Carolina law. I guess the most controversial portion is on the topics of gender and sexuality, whether it is included in the curriculum, talk about that, why is that so controversial, especially for children in elementary school?

MICHAEL RAMEY: The contents of the curriculum is actually one part of this that doesn’t fall into the area of parental rights exactly because parents have a right to opt their child out of particular offensive curriculum materials in certain courses, that involves parental rights. But as to what goes into the curriculum in the first place, that’s a policy matter, that’s going to be decided by the school board, or in this case, is going to be decided by state law. So a lot of parents rose up and made their voices heard and their concerns known. And the legislature responded to that. And that’s exactly what should happen, and that’s a policy decision. And again, it’s not exactly parental rights, per se, but certainly, those parents exercise their rights to be heard and make that change. So basically, parents in North Carolina, through their lawmakers, said we want our children to be able to be children for a while and maintain their innocence and not have to deal with these more grown-up topics until they’re ready.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Our local news station used the word targeted a lot when they talked about these potential laws and now law, one is, “new North Carolina laws will target transgender youth,” making it seem like it was going to be less safe for transgender youth in our schools. Do they have a point?

MICHAEL RAMEY: I think it’s rather the opposite way around. If the Supreme Court has held that children, even in adolescence, they lack the maturity and the capability of analysis and so forth to make these permanent lifetime decisions regarding their health, their mental health, and so on and that parents need to be the ones to help them make those decisions. And the Supreme Court has also said that parents and children have a shared interest in their natural parent-child relationship that the court shouldn’t be interfering with. So really, what we’re seeing is the schools are saying, and the folks who oppose bills like this are really saying, parents have these rights, children have these rights to have their parents involved unless they are gender or sexually minority children, in which case then the parental rights, and the child’s right to their parents’ counsel go away. So really, they’re the ones who are targeting these vulnerable youth by trying to take their parents, who traditionally fulfill a protective and defensive role for the child and take them out of the way. So they’re really the ones targeting the youth.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Well, what should parents do if they are concerned that their rights regarding the education and care of their own children are being either impeded or ignored?

MICHAEL RAMEY: Well, the first step you do is, in as much as you can, you talk to the school administrator or the school teacher. And it may be sufficient, especially with this law now on the book, to point to the law and remind them you know that you’re concerned about your child and you want to know what’s going on. And a lot of times, just having a good discussion can head off any misconceptions, any distrust, and you can work together with them. Now, if that doesn’t work, then you may need to talk to a lawyer who’s there in North Carolina, who knows North Carolina law, and is licensed in North Carolina, and they can give you some more direction there if it’s dealing with your children. And again, there’s that policy level, like I mentioned before, where if it’s not just your child, but you’re concerned about the direction of the whole school, or you’re concerned about the curriculum and so on, then that’s a third thing where you might group together with other parents, go to the school board meetings or talk to your lawmakers, and see where that can be changed at the policy level.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Well, we’re just about out of time for this week. Before we go, Michael Ramey, where can our listeners go to learn more about North Carolina’s new Parents’ Bill of Rights and the good work that you all are doing over there at Parental Rights Foundation?

MICHAEL RAMEY: So the website is ParentalRightsFoundation.org, and if they’ll click on the news tab at the top, and then click again on news in the pulldown menu, then the very first article there, the newest one is on the veto override there in North Carolina and that has our article about that.

TRACI DEVETTE GRIGGS: Okay, Michael Ramey, president of Parental Rights Foundation. Thanks so much for being with us today on Family Policy Matters.

MICHAEL RAMEY: Thank you for having me.

– END –

Parental Rights and Public Schools in North Carolina (School Choice in NC Part 5)

Parental Rights and Public Schools in North Carolina (School Choice in NC Part 5)

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Transcript: Parental Rights and Public Schools in North Carolina (School Choice in NC Part 5)